Should a PvE Warrior Use Major Runes? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Pyro maniac · Mar 25, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

For breakpoints, yes.
For overall damage, maybe.

The minor-only hype comes from PvP, and is mainly for hitting under spirit bond. Of course the extra health doesn't hurt either.

Sir Tidus · Mar 25, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

/Mo on a warrior is only really good for [skill]Mending Touch[/skill]

In PvE you don't really need a secondary.

I run superior runes in PvE unless it's serious business (DoA etc)

Lol, I get this so much. Sigh... what did I just say? I can't having mending touch. Any other options? Thanks.

Toutatis · Mar 25, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

If you were using 3 attributes, I'd go for Strength, Tactics and the attribute of your chosen weapon. Tactics still has a use, despite its "weakened" state from recent balances (even Healing Signet has more uses than just topping up your health bar if the monks are being overworked)

Stormlord Alex · Mar 25, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Any other options? Thanks.

Not much... There's Holy Veil/Purge Signet, I guess.
Everything else is trash.

Sir Tidus · Mar 25, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Not much... There's Holy Veil/Purge Signet, I guess.
Everything else is trash.

Lol, they both seem like trash to me. Are Wammos doomed to be pure Warriors if you don't have NF or Factions?

Sir Tidus · Mar 25, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toutatis

If you were using 3 attributes, I'd go for Strength, Tactics and the attribute of your chosen weapon. Tactics still has a use, despite its "weakened" state from recent balances (even Healing Signet has more uses than just topping up your health bar if the monks are being overworked)

So pure warrior then? No secondary profession? Maybe if I changed it to an elementalist it would be more useful?

Richardt · Mar 25, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

You'll want to use a secondary if there is some utility type skill to help you out. For example, when I first started I specced into healing for Live Vicariously (I don't do this now though

). A more serious example is that I now am /P for Enduring Harmony for a longer FGJ.

For runes, I always use minors (except for vigor). Doing a point or two more damage isn't worth the -35 health IMO.

Wirt · Mar 25, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

In pve, I usually run primary professions only skills, unless im trying out something new. This applies to most of my professions, except MM. I could stand in the guildhall trying to force use of a 2ary profession skill (I dont like cookie cutter builds for some reason), or I could just go into pve battle with all primary skills and let the hero/hench monks do the healing/cond removal, or I could just live with the conditions until they run out. Either way, victory comes pretty easy.

Now if I am doing HM vanquishing or whatnot, then I rethink my builds and do more hybrid stuff. But if you are just doing NM pve, find a good skill chain with primary skills and go with it. Dont expect to find a "good-for-everything" build as you'll need to change up depending on what you want to do. For the most part a straight damage-dealing build, with maybe a few defenses and a self heal are good enough for pve.

MagmaRed · Mar 25, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

W/Mo is useful for hex and condition removal, and occassionally Smiting damage with a specific build. Unless farming solo, there is never a need to put attribute points into a Monk attribute except for the rare Smiting build. Skills you could consider using as a /Mo without using attribute points on would be (from the games you own):

[skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Purge Conditions[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Purge Signet[/skill][wiki]Cure Hex[/wiki][wiki]Smite Condition[/wiki][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][wiki]Purifying Veil[/wiki]

Some of those aren't worth using, and some are extremely effective if used right. Skills like Cure Hex will provide a heal with the hex removal, but you won't be concerned about the heal. The only thing you would need is the hex removed, so attribute points aren't needed. The only other skills you might want to take would be a resurrect spell. Rebirth, Restore Life, and Resurrect would be the ones to look at. Lastly, if you learn how to use enegry and adrenaline well, you could take a skill to use on your teams Monk to help out.

[skill]Succor[/skill]

Chthon · Mar 25, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Probably not.

Past 12 you hit diminishing returns on weapon mastery's inherent effect, so you won't get a worthwhile base damage increase. You're not going to hit any important weapon breakpoints at 15. The only maybe-important strength breakpoint at 14 is enraging charge, which I don't think is worth it (and I often run drunken master instead anyway). And now that tactics is dead, you never need to run any other attributes.

So, the only reason to even consider it would be if you wanted lower life to try to attract more aggro. Not that it's really going to make a difference because there's such an armor differential between you and everyone else that you'll never grab aggro regardless of your hp total unless you use SY, in which case you'll always grab it regardless of your hp total.

Sir Tidus · Mar 25, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targuil

I suggest to stick with max 3 attributes (12 to weapon and something to something else) and i suggest to raise your health by 100 if you have ~480.

12 to weapon attribute as in 12 ranks (resulting in 14 final attribute level) or 10 ranks (resulting in 12 final attribute level)?

Kale Ironfist · Mar 26, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

12 ranks, then minor and helm bonus to 14, since there is no health penalty with the minor and helm bonus.

strcpy · Mar 26, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I wouldn't give a unqualified "yes" or "no" and I don't see how any can do it.

As I said in another thread on how much health is required - if I am playing PvE and I rarely drop below half health and never below 1/4 health what good does that extra health do me? Since that is normally the case and the few times I do actually fall below it I would still have party wiped at 600hp - so again what is that extra health buying me?

As such I would be a fool not to go with more damage, I would be having the higher health just because everyone else does and people on a forum say it's bad. That's makes no sense at all. I would be better off having more offense as it would have things complete faster.

If that isn't your case then the extra health is good. When I first hit the Realm of Torment I had to switch to a higher health PvP like build. Over time as I learned what mobs were what profession, where they spawned, and their patrols and I found I didn't need the health anymore and more offense meant faster runs (and in many cases that little bit made the difference in things like killing them before they finish their Call to Torment skill - and yes this is even true on my characters that are rank one or two Lightbringer - it's even more pronounced on the ones with a high rank). Hard Mode has been the same way, other than a few areas and dungeons I don't need the extra health so why bring it - of course in the areas where I do then I simply swap my headpiece for my high HP build and go from there.

Am I stupid and all the other sorts of replies about using superior runes (and sometimes two majors instead of the superior)? Dunno, but I can not see why it is stupid of me to have exactly the same death/success rate but only complete the stuff faster. That's not to say you will have the same experience and go out there and buy three superior runes, it is only saying if you don't need the health then use one, if you need the health then don't

Wirt · Mar 26, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Strcpy, I kinda agree with you. My warrior has sup runes as a throwback to when it was the rage. However I runed my heros with 2 majors, seems to get most bang for the buck (+4 attributes for -70 hp). Is it the best set-up? Eh I dont know. Did i finish all campaigns with 9 characters without much problem? No.

Also keep in mind if you are sacrificing defense (-75hp) for better offense (sup rune), the bad guys cant help their team or hurt your team when they are dead. You have to determine for your character's profession, how much is the extra hp worth, and how much benefit do you get from the extra points in skills.

Malice Black · Mar 26, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Offense is the best form of defense.

There where few better words spoken.

creelie · Mar 26, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

It's generally not worth it. Aggro is pretty slippery; not all PvE creatures make the same decision about who to attack, and they are prone to changing their minds. Best case scenario as a pure tank is they all settle on you and then they get snared, in which case you want as much health as you can pile on because if you die, they'll go looking for something else to hit. Even if you're not a pure tank, you're probably still hoping to tie up a few baddies and keep them from rampaging among your squishy friends, in which case you still want lots of health. Go with minor runes; your backline will thank you.

RPGmaniac · Mar 26, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Offense is the best form of defense.

There where few better words spoken.

I've heard the opposite though. Defense is the best form of offense.

I used to go for a superior, then decided to go for majors instead. But now I mostly use minors unless I need to hit a specific breakpoint. Using a superior rune just for an extra 3 damage on your eviscerate isn't worth it to me. I'd rather have 75 more health than the other guy.

In regards to using your secondary profession, yeah you are kinda stuck without mending touch, which is a great skill. But that doesn't mean you have nothing. There's cure hex from Eye of the North, which is not a bad heal and a decent way to remove an annoying hex such as empathy or SS or something similar. There's also Mend Ailment too which isn't as good as mending touch but isn't crap.

Quote:

However I runed my heros with 2 majors, seems to get most bang for the buck (+4 attributes for -70 hp).

I do this with my ranger and I love it. If you get the urge to use a superior, don't. Just use two majors instead. You get to increase two attributes by 2 (which is usually better than 3 in one) and you still have more health than if you used a superior.

Also, if you have below 500 health, there's something wrong IMO. Even when I ran my superiors I still had at least 530 health because I had all survivor insignias, a superior vigor and vitae runes on empty armor pieces.

Malice Black · Mar 26, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I pile on the offense in PvE. I run just the one monk in NM PvE, and a monk/motivation para in HM. No melee in NM either (waste of a slot)

Nyktos · Mar 26, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

For a war, majors are only useful for the EC breakpoint (or for Sentinel's Insignias I guess, but I can't think of a reason you'd be using 11 Strength). Sups are out of the question unless you're farming.

As for attributes: To be honest, wars run best with just Weapon Mastery and Strength most of the time. The recent nerf to "Watch Yourself!" took away the last good reason to run Tactics. The only time a secondary profession attribute would be worth putting more than leftover points in it would be a Conjure.

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Offense is the best form of defense.

There where few better words spoken.

In PvP this is very true. But in PvE, you tend to face mobs of greater numbers than your party, so offense can't necessarily replace defense.

Mar 26, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34	#35
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	Offense is the best form of defense. There where few better words spoken. __________________ Old Skool '05

Mar 26, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56	#38
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	I pile on the offense in PvE. I run just the one monk in NM PvE, and a monk/motivation para in HM. No melee in NM either (waste of a slot) __________________ Old Skool '05

Mar 25, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23	#21
Pyro maniac Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2006	For breakpoints, yes. For overall damage, maybe. The minor-only hype comes from PvP, and is mainly for hitting under spirit bond. Of course the extra health doesn't hurt either.

Mar 25, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26	#23
Toutatis Walking Wiki Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Isle of Medication Guild: Visitors from Aranna [VFA] Profession: Me/E	If you were using 3 attributes, I'd go for Strength, Tactics and the attribute of your chosen weapon. Tactics still has a use, despite its "weakened" state from recent balances (even Healing Signet has more uses than just topping up your health bar if the monks are being overworked)

Mar 25, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40	#27
Richardt Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: http://friendsofloa.com/forum Guild: Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!	You'll want to use a secondary if there is some utility type skill to help you out. For example, when I first started I specced into healing for Live Vicariously (I don't do this now though ). A more serious example is that I now am /P for Enduring Harmony for a longer FGJ. For runes, I always use minors (except for vigor). Doing a point or two more damage isn't worth the -35 health IMO.

Mar 25, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57	#28
Wirt Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2007 Guild: Conscripts of Ascalon Profession: W/	In pve, I usually run primary professions only skills, unless im trying out something new. This applies to most of my professions, except MM. I could stand in the guildhall trying to force use of a 2ary profession skill (I dont like cookie cutter builds for some reason), or I could just go into pve battle with all primary skills and let the hero/hench monks do the healing/cond removal, or I could just live with the conditions until they run out. Either way, victory comes pretty easy. Now if I am doing HM vanquishing or whatnot, then I rethink my builds and do more hybrid stuff. But if you are just doing NM pve, find a good skill chain with primary skills and go with it. Dont expect to find a "good-for-everything" build as you'll need to change up depending on what you want to do. For the most part a straight damage-dealing build, with maybe a few defenses and a self heal are good enough for pve.

Mar 25, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11	#29
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	W/Mo is useful for hex and condition removal, and occassionally Smiting damage with a specific build. Unless farming solo, there is never a need to put attribute points into a Monk attribute except for the rare Smiting build. Skills you could consider using as a /Mo without using attribute points on would be (from the games you own): [skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Purge Conditions[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Purge Signet[/skill][wiki]Cure Hex[/wiki][wiki]Smite Condition[/wiki][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][wiki]Purifying Veil[/wiki] Some of those aren't worth using, and some are extremely effective if used right. Skills like Cure Hex will provide a heal with the hex removal, but you won't be concerned about the heal. The only thing you would need is the hex removed, so attribute points aren't needed. The only other skills you might want to take would be a resurrect spell. Rebirth, Restore Life, and Resurrect would be the ones to look at. Lastly, if you learn how to use enegry and adrenaline well, you could take a skill to use on your teams Monk to help out. [skill]Succor[/skill]

Mar 25, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42	#30
Chthon Grotto Attendant Join Date: Apr 2007	Probably not. Past 12 you hit diminishing returns on weapon mastery's inherent effect, so you won't get a worthwhile base damage increase. You're not going to hit any important weapon breakpoints at 15. The only maybe-important strength breakpoint at 14 is enraging charge, which I don't think is worth it (and I often run drunken master instead anyway). And now that tactics is dead, you never need to run any other attributes. So, the only reason to even consider it would be if you wanted lower life to try to attract more aggro. Not that it's really going to make a difference because there's such an armor differential between you and everyone else that you'll never grab aggro regardless of your hp total unless you use SY, in which case you'll always grab it regardless of your hp total.

Mar 26, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02	#32
Kale Ironfist Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Australia Guild: Venatio Illuminata [VEIL] Profession: W/	12 ranks, then minor and helm bonus to 14, since there is no health penalty with the minor and helm bonus.

Mar 26, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16	#33
strcpy Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: One of Many [ONE]	I wouldn't give a unqualified "yes" or "no" and I don't see how any can do it. As I said in another thread on how much health is required - if I am playing PvE and I rarely drop below half health and never below 1/4 health what good does that extra health do me? Since that is normally the case and the few times I do actually fall below it I would still have party wiped at 600hp - so again what is that extra health buying me? As such I would be a fool not to go with more damage, I would be having the higher health just because everyone else does and people on a forum say it's bad. That's makes no sense at all. I would be better off having more offense as it would have things complete faster. If that isn't your case then the extra health is good. When I first hit the Realm of Torment I had to switch to a higher health PvP like build. Over time as I learned what mobs were what profession, where they spawned, and their patrols and I found I didn't need the health anymore and more offense meant faster runs (and in many cases that little bit made the difference in things like killing them before they finish their Call to Torment skill - and yes this is even true on my characters that are rank one or two Lightbringer - it's even more pronounced on the ones with a high rank). Hard Mode has been the same way, other than a few areas and dungeons I don't need the extra health so why bring it - of course in the areas where I do then I simply swap my headpiece for my high HP build and go from there. Am I stupid and all the other sorts of replies about using superior runes (and sometimes two majors instead of the superior)? Dunno, but I can not see why it is stupid of me to have exactly the same death/success rate but only complete the stuff faster. That's not to say you will have the same experience and go out there and buy three superior runes, it is only saying if you don't need the health then use one, if you need the health then don't

Mar 26, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49	#34
Wirt Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2007 Guild: Conscripts of Ascalon Profession: W/	Strcpy, I kinda agree with you. My warrior has sup runes as a throwback to when it was the rage. However I runed my heros with 2 majors, seems to get most bang for the buck (+4 attributes for -70 hp). Is it the best set-up? Eh I dont know. Did i finish all campaigns with 9 characters without much problem? No. Also keep in mind if you are sacrificing defense (-75hp) for better offense (sup rune), the bad guys cant help their team or hurt your team when they are dead. You have to determine for your character's profession, how much is the extra hp worth, and how much benefit do you get from the extra points in skills.

Mar 26, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35	#36
creelie Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Alberta Guild: Charter Vanguard [CV] Profession: Mo/	It's generally not worth it. Aggro is pretty slippery; not all PvE creatures make the same decision about who to attack, and they are prone to changing their minds. Best case scenario as a pure tank is they all settle on you and then they get snared, in which case you want as much health as you can pile on because if you die, they'll go looking for something else to hit. Even if you're not a pure tank, you're probably still hoping to tie up a few baddies and keep them from rampaging among your squishy friends, in which case you still want lots of health. Go with minor runes; your backline will thank you.

Mar 26, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21	#39
Nyktos Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2007 Guild: The Nyktos Guild [win]	For a war, majors are only useful for the EC breakpoint (or for Sentinel's Insignias I guess, but I can't think of a reason you'd be using 11 Strength). Sups are out of the question unless you're farming. As for attributes: To be honest, wars run best with just Weapon Mastery and Strength most of the time. The recent nerf to "Watch Yourself!" took away the last good reason to run Tactics. The only time a secondary profession attribute would be worth putting more than leftover points in it would be a Conjure.